PPI is done some good things some not so good

Overall the condition is GOOD.

Leakdown showed 3% accross the board (one was 4, one was 2).

The car needs a major service. The timing belts were last replaced when the engine was built in 1984. I thought it had been more recent, but the engine builder told me this was the date. Mileage was 56,230 at the time so only 10,000 miles in ~20 years. Belts, hoses, etc probably need replacement. He said the cam seals and the cam drive seal were both leaking oil and the heads need to be torqued (leaks a little when the engine was running).

Carbs were a little rich but that's an easy fix.

Also, he didn't think the paint was all that great. It was "OK" in his words and maybe a good detailer with a buffing wheel, polish and wax can make it shine again. He said that he'd seen better paint.

The alternator failed his test and needs to be replaced and the battery was weak (because of the alternator). The alternator worked, just not too well.

Driving back is not an option with the timing belts issue.

So, I'm looking at $4,000 (minimum) in service + transport ($1,200) and it may need paint in a few years (doubtful, but a factor)

So, not what to do. I think he'll get pissed when I offer him $22k (he's asking $28k, was asking $32k in May) for it but then, I'm the only caller and he can't sell it in California b/c their is no emmisions equipment on the car.

He reitterated several times the engine was VERY strong. Stumbled a little at low RPM's b/c of the rich carbs but it was strong. Engine rebuild included 10:1 pistons, reprofiled cams, and rejetted carbs.

Sean,

I wouldn't meet his price of 28k. That is way too high. The engine might be strong, but the belts are weak and a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link. I've passed on good examples that are fully sorted for sale at 30k.

What I've found to be common practice is to list out all the things that need to be changed to get the car in the condition you feel is fair for the asking price and split the difference. For example, if the seller is asking for 28k, then visualize a car that is worth 28k to you. Then look at how much you're looking to fix (about 6k) and split the difference. So your offer could be 25k. That's if you're feeling generous because the guy properly represented the car and it is indeed a good find. If you feel like hunting for bargains or if you want to show this guy a bit of reality, I'd definitely offer 22k and ride it out.

I think he will listen to you as long as you justify the expenses. If he is adamant about the engine's health, I suggest you ask him to make the car a strong runner and THEN pay him the full 28k for it. His opinion means little compared to what a reputable mechanic's opinion means.

Cheers

Well, it's all over now.

He just called (again, called earlier and I was putting the kids to bed, said I'd call back - he waited 20-minutes).

I mentioned everything above and he said he'd come down $2,000. ($26K). I'm still not clear on the belts, He said it was 5-6 yrs ago but Enzo Motors says it was 1984 when the engine was done so I don't know who did the belts when. In fact, I didn't do much talking. He kept talking about how strong the engine was, blah, blah, blah.. I knew when he brought that up a second time it would be a no go.

He sounded impatient, said he'd come down $2k and any lower he'd just keep the car b/c he couldn't afford to sell it for less. Though Blackhorse was telling me about the belts b/c "They just want to sell you the service"....crap...I really thought this was going to work out.

JRV, I remember seeing a '77GTB in your shop that had the engine out of it. Does the owner want to sell it?

Sean,

If the owner doesn't have any records of the service, as far as anyone is concerned...it was never done. Those are the rules of this "game". He can claim whatever he wants but at the end of the day, just about every educated buyer is going to call BS on that one.

Give him some time. There are plenty of other 308s out there. Also tell him the service would be done closer to where you live so the PPI mechanic would have no benefit to tell you the car needs it. It's a moot point anyways, because the car has only traveled 10k miles in 20 years. The engine, no matter how strong is probably going to need a healthy sorting.

Cheers

Sean,

I am following your story quiet regularly since I am a step back from you in the process of buying a 77 308 GTB.

If the broker I deal with stays cooperative, I should have a PPI of the car in a week or so.

Questions for you thus:
Did you go to California during the PPI?
If not, how did you find a trusty mechanic to be your eyes and judgment caller? After all pardon me to be sometimes paranoid, but there are a lot of crooks out there?
Did you require a written PPI report with pictures? Is there a warranty associated with a PPI?

Good luck to you in you grail chase!

I posted a message here and on f-chat and several poeple recommended Blackhorse Motors in LA. I talked with Carl and Steve. Steve did the PPI and faxed me the results of the leakdown and his inspection. He also called and went over it with me. He was very straight forward about the car and I felt he gave me a good opinion (the above is a very brief summary). We probably talked for 30-40 minutes about the PPI.

I did not go to CA, but my uncle lives in LA and he looked the car over, test drove it, and took a bunch of pictures. It's really a good car, I just need a better price for it to work for me. (engine has LOT of power b/c of the 10:1 pistons and cams). Maybe for you it would be fine. Their are pictures on another thread here and I could send you more if you're interested in this car. But know that their are NO emmisions on the car and it basically needs a major service. Because of this I cannot drive it home and the cost gets kinda high for me.

No warrenty with a PPI. It's just an opinion of the cars condition.

By the way, didn't we converse via e-mail a few months back? I thought you worked for elf-fina and were going on an extended assignment or something?

Anyway, if you want some pics let me know and I'll give you his name and number and I'll scan and e-mail the PPI to you. If you want one on your own, call Bill Gojkov at Enzo in LA and have him do it. He was going to actually go to the owner's place, but he could not do a Leakdown or compression check and that's why I went to Blackhorse. But if you trust my guy you wouldn't need that and you'd have another opinion of the car.

Do a search for Blackhorse on f-chat.

Figure it needs 5k of work. That brings it down to 23k, not bad. I don't think I would go any higher because of the current market, the model and condition of the car.

I saw an 83 QV Red/Tan 47,000. miles with complete records and recent service go from 32,000 down to 27,500 in 4 months before it disappeared in July. A year ago the car would have sold easily for 32,000. The market is down right now and there are some good deals to be had.

My personal feelings are the guy CAN'T afford NOT to sell it, especially if it's in Cali with no emissions. Whos he gonna call?

Twocents

Well at least you have a realistic expecation of what the cars are worth/going for. Ask any other 308 owner and they'll tell you a good one is worth 30K. Of course, theirs is a "good one" but they wouldn't sell it for less than $35!

Of course, none of them are in the market or trying to sell while I am, yet I don't know what I'm talking about!! ;)

>>My personal feelings are the guy CAN'T afford NOT to sell it, especially if it's in Cali with no emissions. Whos he gonna call? <<

I agree...a REAL BUYER is awful hard to say no to if you're really trying to sell.

JRV, what do YOU think of the car from what I've written? I don't think it's been neglected so much as that he's just not driven it much. Probably doesn't want to get caught in a random test and have his emissions fail.

Overall I think it's a good car but the 19yrs w/o a Major is a LONG time.

By the way, maybe you didn't see my question, but I recall seeing a '77GTB in your shop with the engine out. Any chance that owner is looking to sell?

Thanks