Stainless Steel Brake Line Problems

While rebuilding the front and rear suspension on my 82 308 GTSi I decided to replace the brake lines with stainless steel - also rebuild the brake calipers. Purchased Goodrich stainless steel brake lines from Damon Tweaks (UK) and now have flair issue. Once the hard lines are attached to the stainless lines there is slight play (in and out) and I'm certain they will leak. Suggestion would be most gratefully received.

>>slight play (in and out) and I'm certain they will leak.<<

have you taken the suspect fitting back apart and inspected the internal flare seat for compatibility with the hard line flare?

also a call to your brake line supplier is in order to question whether they sild you the wrong lines.

Regards, JRV

Once verifying the flare angles, you will likely need to get Copper Flare Gaskets to help the seal (you old hard lines are trying to mate with a new surface after 20+ years of "marriage" to your old lines!)

Also, my new lines went "deeper" into the mounting bracket, affecting the angle that the hard lines went in to them, causing seal problems. Make sure if this is the case that the angle is PERFECTLY straight into them.

And finally, they need to be TIGHT. If you have the hard line fitting tight (11mm flare wrench) into the new SS brake lines, there should be no free play.

You're correct: if you DO have free play, fluid will leak out from behind the nut.

--Mike

Not sure about using copper sealing washers on brake line junctions...would like to hear David's, Bill's, Bob's and others opinions on this.

Regards, JRV

With well over 100 years of combined experience, I am waiting for the verdict.

JL

Copper flare gaskets were recommended (and sent) to me by Orme Bros., the US Goodrich fabricator and distributor. They said the leaks are a common problem, due to not bad flare angles, but just that the old hard lines had already formed themselves to the original lines, and the gaskets (metal conical washers) help perfect the seal.

Mike,

how many brake lines have Orme Bros. and BF Goodrich actually "installed themselves" and over what lenght of time? What is the real intended purpose of copper flare washers? Aren't they used in Automotive applications to seal refrigerant system flare fittings?

I have to wonder why Auto Manufacturers themselves don't use copper on the original instalations?

Why in 30 yrs I've never had an old brake line and new brake line combo leak?

Why is the angled flare sealing system used in the first place?

I'm sure a few more questions will come to mind.

I can't begin to count the numbers of brake hoses I've replaced, Stock &amp; SS and NEVER had a leak.

I can think of several reasons off the top of my head that make using a copper sealing washer risky on brake applications. Un-uniform deformation of the washer, off centered alignment plugging the fluid channel, soft metal preventing the swedged fit neccesary to insure a positive lifetime lock. If I really work at it I'd bet I could think of a few more issues of concern.

Now, my theory is that if the lines leak or are loose then the SS line is mismachined or cut at the wrong angle to be compatible and the solution is to find a line of high enough quality to be a perfect match and make a perfect seal.

If I live long enough to see manufacturers finally stop building their mistakes then maybe I'll take what they say with a little more confidence.

Regards, JRV
BTW: I didn't ask for OB or BFG opinions, I asked for the opinions of the list of experts that I know &amp; trust that are members here to bring their years of experience to the table.

I agree with JR here. The copper washers solve the leaking issue, but what new issues do they create if any? And why doesn't the OEM hoses require copper washers? A good question to ask the "Experts" who have decades of experience doing things the right way.

JL

Well, if I am an "expert" after being a shop owner for 15 years, and another 15 years or so as a hard core "car guy", here's my spin....

Copper washers to seal brake hydraulic flare ends..Huh??? Never seen them, never used them...and never had a problem with OE replacement or aftermarket SS flex line leaking after installation, no matter how old the car or the brake lines were.

The only time I've ever run into a hydraulic fluid leak is when the OE steel buny lines are replaced with SS lines. SS takes a bit more compression force to seal, so the line fitting just needs a bit more torque to "seat" the bubble flare. Not a big deal...

A couple of thoughts...

-If the bundy line fits loose in the new SS flex line fitting, the fitting is incorrect in type. IMO, replacement with the correct line is the only safe solution.

-If the bundy line appears to fit "correctly" in the SS flex line fitting, yet seeps after tightening...first try slightly more torque. If it still leaks, the "flare" on the bundy line should be inspected for damage, and re-flared if necessary. This is a pretty rare occurance.

Considering brake line pressures at 1,000-2,500 psi, coupled with the potential and value of these cars, this is one area where I just wouldn't do a non-OE type repair.

Whatever vendor said "the age of the line and/or flare is a factor" is one vendor I would not do business with.

Just my 2 lires worth....

Regards,
David

Oh...BTW,

I'm having a custom set of stainless steel, kevlar coated flex lines made for my BB (they'll fit all BB models)...Drop me note if you'd like a set. They've got my OE lines as templates, so there will no issues with fitment, or leakage.

And...for you Lotus Elan owners out there (Bill?), I'm having a similar set made, as well. This should be a "big" demand item, I suspect! HA!

Regards,
David