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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am being told by Ferrari Bev

I am being told by Ferrari Beverly Hills that it will cost $12,000 to fix a possible cracked head, and $24,000 to rebuild the motor????? Car went into the shop with a water leak and now.... needs a new motor???? They said that there was a recall on the 1980 308 motor I can't find that info. Any help would be great.
 
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Lots of problems with early in

Lots of problems with early injected cars..Many got new engines from the factory. Sorry to say this, but he might be right.
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Any way to research if my car

Any way to research if my car got a new engine? I have all of the work invoices including original stickers from the original sale, one of them seems to indicate that there was a new engine put in it. Is there anyway to verify this?
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I would think it could be veri

I would think it could be verified by the selling/servicing dealer. Either way, if it was 20 years ago. I doubt you will get any relief.
How long have you owned this car? If it had a new engine, it should have been fine unless something else went wrong. Sorry to hear this. Good luck.
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
$24,000 to rebuild a 308 engin

$24,000 to rebuild a 308 engine? You have to joking. Is this guy talking about recasting everything from fresh aluminum, basicly building a complete moter form scratch? Then maybe it would cost 24,000. The engine should cost no more then 10k to rebuild at the worst!!
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I'm guessing typical deale

I'm guessing typical dealer gouging?

Tough to tell without seeing what the heck they're fixing. That does sound a bit on the steep side for an 8 cylinder model.

Cheers
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
>>I am being told by F

>>I am being told by Ferrari Beverly Hills <<

Have you confirmed that price with Ferrari of Monaco? {
}

Not surprising though, last time I was in Beverly Hills they wanted $1000 for a pair of shoes. Luckily I found a better deal in Compton for $25 bucks...{
}

Seriously though....Dealers prefer to Cherry Pick their work, easy, high profit, non labor intensive work requireing the least skilled personell and basically no risk. Rebuilding older 308 engines that they would have to warranty doesn't fall under that category, so they price the work so high to chase away the problem. Also their Labor Rate is astronomical so maybe they really could make the math work somehow to arrive at $24K?

But in the world outside Bling Town a normal complete overhaul of a 308 with say 60K-80K miles would top out at around $12K-$14. Anything more than that wouldhave to come with gold plated parts.

As to your question about 80's replacement engines, YES, some of the engines used large quantities of oil and were replaced under a hush, hush warranty goodwill claim program. As far as I'm aware the number of new replacement engines handed out was small, as small as they could possibly get away with. To check on your own car service records would help, also FNA surely recorded every free engine and matched it with a serial number, so records very well may exist with them.

Regards, JRV
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks for all of the informat

Thanks for all of the information - Never having owned a Ferrari before, I just have a few more questions... How would they know that it even had a bad engine without even having done a leakdown test, or a compression test. How would I verify what they are telling me??? Has anyone used or dealt with Blackhorse Motors? One last question - In the same breath that the dealership told me that it would be $24K to rebuild they also said that I should just sell it. Oh, and guess what they may be able to find me a buyer too. Not sure if I mentioned this or not, but it went in with a small water leak that it developed after being in for a smog check.
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
To best answer your question..

To best answer your question..."How would they know if it had a "bad" engine without doing a compression or leakdown test...?"

The "best test" of an engines' internal integrity is a leakdown test...Ring condition and valve sealing issues now become a measurable value versus mere speculation.

However, a "small" water leak could prove to be an expensive repair if indeed the leak is internal...Specifically, is the coolant leaking into the combustion chamber? Depending on the nature of the potential crack, the leakdown test may be non-conclusive. Typically, if an internal leak is suspected (in that there is absolutely no evidence of external leaks), the best test that I've come across in 25+ years of working with cars, is to take a CO reading from the coolant overflow tank. If there is CO present in the cooling system, there is a very high likelihood of a cracked head, as the presence of combustion gases are now detectable in the coolant.

Considering the age of your car...I would not discount a seeping hose. It is all too easy to jump to conclusions without doing the necessary diagnostic work first....Dealers are no exception to this rule.

Considering the potential dollars at stake, I'd get a second opinion...if that would make you feel more comfortable.


Regards,
David
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks David- I think that I a

Thanks David- I think that I am going to do just that. The leak was a visable one at the top of the engine coming directly from the radiator,it was a metal tube that required re-welding to repair. This they said they did without a problem. We then requested that the annual service be done, just to save us from having to take it back in the few months. After being advised that it was done and car was ready to pick up we recieved another call now stating that the engine was "Bad"... Not real sure how it made it through the smog check & annual service and then..... the next day the engine was bad. Now I am trying to gather more information about the innerworkings of the car before I blame/question them about the recent events. So again, thanks for all of the help with this, I have gotten more information in two days from all of you than the dealership in 2 months.
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Jedlick,
I would go to the de


Jedlick,
I would go to the dealer and take the car from them and say SEE YA!
They sound like a bunch of clowns. How is your engine bad? Did they run it without oil? Did they snap a drive belt during the smog test? How did they say it ran? Is it knocking?
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Why anyone uses dealers for se

Why anyone uses dealers for service anymore I am not sure. It is important to remember that the guy who is writing the ticket gets a percentage the mechanic gets a percentage and obviously so does the fancy dealership.. I currently am driving at 1980 308GTSi at least 3 days a week putting over 15,000 miles on it in last 2.5 yrs with minimal problems. When I purchased it for 24500 everything was original and it needed what a call a rerubbering.. What I mean by this is that the belts gaskets etc had to be changes out since car was 20 yrs old with 35,000 mile and is an AZ car thus sufferred from the dry heat. The mechanic I have in AZ did all the service for approx 2500 and since that time I have only spent another 1500. It maybe worth seeking out a private non dealer mechanic.
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
T Rutlands will sell you a ful

T Rutlands will sell you a fully rebuilt longblock on exchange for $7,500.00. Supposedly the guy here in Atlanta who rebuilds them has done a ton, really has it down and does a quality job. I imagine if you need to have someone else pull the old motor, install the new and get it all running well your looking at the $10K-$12K that has been mentioned... but if your at all handy with a wrench this, DIY could be a viable option.

$24K is a total joke! You get build a dry sump race motor for less than that.
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I struggle with this cost at e

I struggle with this cost at even $7500. If you were to do this yourself and just do a stock rebuild where are all of the costs? Do we assume that you need new pistons and sleeves and so on? Doese someone have a price list breakdown that lists the overall parts. I usually do Chev. SM/BB motors for around $2000 complete. Now I know you have the Fcar $ difference but still $5k's worth.
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Steve,

With all due respect


Steve,

With all due respect, we're in a whole different league here...You're talking a mass produced vehicle versus a limited production import.

From a labor point of view, a typical Ferrari engine overhaul will take approximately 33% more time than your run of the mill Chevy. Most of that additional labor will be in setting up the heads and dialing in the cam timing. Machine shop costs may be higher as well. More valves, alu heads...and valve guide are likely a replacement item.

Depending on numerous factors, the pistons/liners may or may not need to be replaced. If they need replacement, figure on $150 minimum per hole, on average.

Gaskets, bearings, etc. are significantly more expensive than just about any car out there...

Is all this "worth the difference"....
Hmmm?? Chevy engine at speed versus a Ferrari V-8. Only you can be the ultimate judge on this point.

Regards,
David
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
David not a problem . I've

David not a problem . I've rebuilt Chevy and Jaguar V-12 with Aluim heads. Valves and seats and guides are no different in a V-12 Jag as they are in the 308. So even at $1200 for pistons and liners I'm still puzzled on the big $'s . I don't mind the labor and maybe in another 10 years I'll be doing my 308 but I still find it hard to believe that I'll pay more then $4000 for parts. Just asking , after all a motor is a motor is a motor and all it is made up of is parts and tolerances.
 
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Having done quite a few , sta

Having done quite a few , start to finish, pull car in, pull engine, completely rebuild, close hood for customer to drive off with a nice 1-2 yr warranty is easily 100 man hours of labor....X your favorite labor rate number.

I'll tell you in advance that in Houston alone no less than 20 hotshots thought they could low ball me out of business in the last 20 yrs. Nationwide no telling, probably in the thousands. And if you factor in that I'm at least 25% cheaper than the dealer...but refuse to give quality away at fly by night shop prices ...well.

The best lesson one might learn when trying to beat the system with Ferrari or Lamborghini is that there is definately a point of dimishing return when trying to price at the lowest common denominator.

Regards, JRV
 
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
LJedlick,

Blackhorse did a


LJedlick,

Blackhorse did a PPI on a car I was looking at for $300. Did a very through job IMO and provided me with good info. on the car, etc.

Several on f-chat think highly of them.

Carl and Steve are the head guys there and I talked with both and they seemed to know their stuff.

Just FYI, FoBH waned $900 to do the same PPI that Blackhorse did.

Hell, you could ship it to JRV and have him build a high compression/camm'd motor and really have some HP for less than $24k !!
 
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