BB512I no spark update

4583 Views 12 Replies 0 Participants Last post by Tom Bakowsky, Nov 16, 2003

Discussion Starter · Nov 14, 2003

Ok here is what I have done so

Ok here is what I have done so far.

1. sent the box back to Lonnie to get checked,alnog with the ignition coil. Both checked out perfect accorong to him.

2. Installed the box after getting it back...no spark.

3. I had another BB512 in the shop. I took the pick-up off the side of the distributor and installed the pick-up from the BB with no spark into the running 512. The running 512 still ran...pick-up is good.

4. Checking the Ac voltage from the pick-up I see 1.5Ac volts---right on spec for cranking speed output. I checked directly at the box and at the pick-up itself. no differance in voltage. Wire is good.

5. Made my own wireing harness seperate from the cars harness, running individual wires directly from the box to the controlled components. I powered the box up directly from the battery.
I grounded the box directly to the chassis. Still no spark. This eliminates it being a wiring problem.

6. With the original wiring hooked up to the bow I get the following results when testing electricly.
a. Yellow wire----12v with key on engine off.
11v cranking engine....good
b. red wire----because it's a permatune unit there should be nothing there accoring to Lonnie. It will only fire when it sees a crank input.
c. Ground..this is good checked with meter and test light...also to be safe ran a double ground.
d. green wire...seeing 1.5A/C volts at box and then same volatge at the pick terminal itself,when cramking engine.

What the hell is going on with this car?????? I'm about to put it out front of my shop and plant flowers in it!!!

Is there anything else inside this distributor that can fail resulting in a no start problem? I'm at my witts end with ths thing. Any ideas would be a blessing!! If anybody sloves this problem for me..I will go to were ever you live and personaly thank you!!

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Discussion Starter · #2 · Nov 14, 2003

WHEN YOU CRANK THE MOTOR OVER

WHEN YOU CRANK THE MOTOR OVER CAN YOU HOLD THE COIL WIRE AWAY FROM THE COIL, AND SEE IF YOU ARE GETTING THE SPARK TO JUMP ACROSS THE COIL AND THE COIL WIRE.

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Discussion Starter · #3 · Nov 14, 2003

Tried that...absoultly nothing

Tried that...absoultly nothing. It's just completely dead. I have tried everything in the book with this car and then some. It's giving me nightmares. I just can't understand this. Like I stated this car should be running without a hitch. I even checked the air gap between the pick and the reluctor in the distributor and it's right on the money. Tomorrow I'm going to throw everything I've got at this car(for the 4th time) and see were that takes me. If I have to pull the entire thing apart I will. This car is not going to defeat me!!

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Discussion Starter · #4 · Nov 14, 2003

Hi.........

Try the ignitio

Hi.........

Try the ignition coil from the "live" 512 on the "dead" 512 !?!

Frank.......23005
www.masiarz.net/bb_resource

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Discussion Starter · #5 · Nov 14, 2003

hi Tom,

Another thing you m

hi Tom,

Another thing you might try is disconnecting the Tach. Pretty rare, but Tachs can shunt the ignition if they are shorted out.

Regards, JRV

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Discussion Starter · #6 · Nov 14, 2003

Tom,

have you checked to in

Tom,

have you checked to insure that the ignition switch is still providing power to the ignition circuit while in cranking mode?

Regards, JRV

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Discussion Starter · #7 · Nov 14, 2003

I have completely removed the

I have completely removed the tach from the dash!! It's sitting in the floor of the car.

Yes I have good cranking voltage while cranking the engine. I have about 11volts while cranking.

I removed the distributor today and hooked up my volt meter directly to the pick-up on the side of the distributor. I spun the distributor by hand and voltage will vary from 1.5V to 5v when spinning fast by hand.

I have tried varoius brand new coils..still the same thing. Coil ground is one that I made directly to ground so I know it is solid.

Everything i have tested has tested good. All relays,fuses etc. The wiring is fine..I know this because I made my own harness independent of the cars one..and still nothing. The engine block to frame ground is good and solid. The distributor ground is solid.

What else could this be? I'm completly stumped how is this possiable with a new box,new coil,new wiring,knowen good pick-up,new coil wire,all grounds checked? Can't think of anything else right now,but WTF is going on here?

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Discussion Starter · #8 · Nov 15, 2003

Tom,

if the distrib is stil

Tom,

if the distrib is still off the engine just spin it and look for coil spark. Key on, spin distrib while it's wired up. Has to work plumbed in with the Perma-Tune or an MSD...has to...or else whatever is preventing spark will become apparent.

Regards, JRV

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Discussion Starter · #9 · Nov 15, 2003

I'm going try that that to

I'm going try that that today...damit I told myself no more saterdays but I guess I'm going to have to put a full day in today on this one!!

Guys thanks for all your ideas and suggestions,it is very much appreciated...This is the best tech site going for Ferrari's bar none. There is a wealth of knowleage and abilty available at the click of a mouse...were else could you find that for these cars?

Again thank you all very very much.

I will let you know what I find.

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Discussion Starter · #10 · Nov 15, 2003

Well here is what I did

I r

Well here is what I did

I removed the box from it's mounting position on the fire wall.

I removed the distributor from the engine.

I rested the box beside the ignition coil on the fender and wired it up directly to battery power(not key controled so if the car did start I would not be able to shut if off with the key,would have to remove wire from power source).

I then ran wire from pin 4 to coil+
then ran a wire from pin 6 to distributor pick-up
then ran a wire from pin 5 to chassis ground and of course pin 1 12volts.

I then ran an independant ground from the - side of the coil to chassis ground
The ran another ground from the distributor to chassis ground.

I powered up the box and spun the distributor by hand....no spark from the coil. I found another coil and tried it..same result..no spark. I then hooked up my meter to pin 6 of the ignition box and spun the distributor...voltage flucuates between 1.5 and 4.5 volts depending how fast I spin the distributor.

I have now no doubt in my mind that the fault lies with the box. It is not possiable to have no spark with the way that I'm testing this car.

Having eliminated the wireing,pick-up and ground problems,there is only 2 things in the way of the spark path...The coil(which I belevie to be good)and the ignition box.

On monday I'm going to send the distributor,box,and coil back to Lonnie at permatune and I want him to test the entire shabang together and see what he comes up with. There is no reason why thins thing should not be running.

Is there anything else i could have missed? If so please tell me or you any of you guys have any other ideas let me know..

Tom
Headache BB512i

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Discussion Starter · #11 · Nov 15, 2003

Tom,

I had forgoten to ment

Tom,

I had forgoten to mention ground Distrib. but you caught it and carried on. It reads that you have covered every base that I can think of but 1. If you have an old good MSD laying around, you could verify the CD Box/No Spark issue by wiring up and trying for spark one more time.

Other than that it appears you have covered the bases. I really feel for you and if you weren't so far away I'd come over and help in person.

Regards, JRV

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Discussion Starter · #12 · Nov 15, 2003

Tom,

Maybe this is too obvi

Tom,

Maybe this is too obvious...but!

The factory spark box and the MSD box require two power leads for the unit to work properly. The switched YELLOW wire from the ignition merely powers up the logic within the Permatune unit from the ignition switch...

The RED wire which is connected directly to the battery (always hot) provides the voltage to the high voltage circuit, within the spark box, which in turn will fire up the coil circuit.

Verify this info with Permatune before going any further....

Regards,
David

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Discussion Starter · #13 · Nov 16, 2003

The permatune unit does not wo

The permatune unit does not work this way.

It uses the exsisting wiring in the car allow the use of the box.

The box uses the yellow wire that goes to pin one as the main power source for the box.
As you know there are 2 yellow wires that are tied into the same pin connector. You must eliminate the yellow wire that comes out of the box to the +B terminal on the igniton coil.

The red wire which which used to be on the "k" terminal of the original coil goes to +B terminal on the replacement coil.

The the wire on the unmarked terminal of the orriginal coil goes to the negative side of the replacement coil. The replacement coil is a 2 terminal coil as opposed to the 3 terminal original unit.

The prmatune unit is a positve discharge unit..so there will be NO key-on-engine-off power at the + side of the coil. The box will only send power to to coil when it recives a signal from the pick-up in the ditributor(which it is getting). It then reads that signal like a set of points except it's done electronicly and fires the coil.

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