In any case, after serious bucks and a long painful wait, I thought I had my boxer ready to rock and roll. Well, i took it out for a stretch, within 20 minutes it started sputtering, hesitating, and would not rev up in any gear, so I shut it down after 30 minutes, started it again, and within 5 minutes it started lurching, hesitating...and eventually started backfiring to a point that I had to shut it down within 30 minutes again.
I have new MSD, professionally wired, and all sorts of expenses, including new cambelts and a major service. I am so fed up with this situation, it has been two years. The A/C which was working fine after recharging, decided to quit in the hottest part of the day. This morning, it started right up and the AC was fine (condenser problems?}
But why this incredible jerky ignition? I cant believe no one can fix my car. It is frustrating. It runs fine for acouple of weeks then goes back to square one.
I checked the fuel pump fuses...they were fine..what could be causing the fine automobile to hesitate, sputter and refuse to accelerate? Why the backfire? It is maddening.
Coach: It seems that you and I are both having problems with this "fine automobile". I have just completed exhaustive fuel injection tests, and will now work on the ignition. Between you and I, and persistance, I think we will help each other solve our problems.
While your FP fuses are OK, can you confirm that BOTH FPs are running?
When the car came back from FOA, they said they had to replace a fuel pump relay that was dead...I agree that it is a fuel supply problem, since I have had enough experience in that category, so I checked the fuses, they were fine...but I dont know how to check the relays..and wonder if that same relay is bad again,what would cause it to go bad again. I will haul it back to FOA, at some expense and then I will cuss and fuss till the damned thing works again. It will be Tuesday before i can get in touch with them again, but I will keep you posted.
I think the fuel and ignition systems are not those of a "fine" automobile.
Coach: I just went through checking the relays......it is easy. All you need is a 12V battery and an Ohm meter. The relays are marked with numbers, for the terminals.
Place the Ohm meter on terminals #30 and #87.......it should show that they are open.....infinity reading. Then, apply +12V and -12V from the battery, to terminals #85 and #86........these are the electromagnet that trigger the connection between #s 30 and 87. When the voltage is applied, you can hear a "click" and watch the Ohm meter go to zero. This tells you that the relay is OK.
I would do this to the 3 relays: 2 individual FP relays, and one general FP relay, that supplies the other two..........does this make sense?
Always go to the last thing that was touched when a problem arises.
Before you had the MSD installed how was the car running? If everything was o.k before the install..I would have a very close look at the MSD wiring and box for problems before going any further. You never know it could be just a bad connection somewere cause problems.
It could also be fuel as you have suspected but I would just double check the MSD install first before running in circles again.
You guys remember the time I had with a BB512i. Iw as about ready to push the thing in front of my shop and plant flowers in it!! But through the help of this site I was able to fugure it out. Now the car is running like a champ and the new owner is very happy!! I have since done the ful service as well.
Tom, the reason we installed MSD ignition is because the car was not running properly...it would run, but then after a while it would start backfiring, and in one special case, the car died on me three or four times in the middle of a very busy highway when I went to pick it up from the dealer who had just finished working on it. They had a hell of a time pinpointing the problem, as it would never do it for them, but somehow always did it for me.
Checking the fuel pump relays sounds like a good suggestion and I will do that tonight.
As for the alternator, that is a distinct possibility, though my ammeter shows it charging as always...but 10 minutes into a drive, it looks like it stops charging and the ammeter needle is at 0 or slighlty below that.
JRV, can you give me a quick lesson on how to check the alternator charging...I have the equipment. Normally, I just attach my voltmeter to the battery and watch the charge. Any better way to do that?
Thanks for all the suggestions. I will keep you posted..
I have always suspected the charging system to be a culprit of some sort or the other....I use a trickle charger on the battery when not in use so to start the car is always fully charged but it is possible the alternator may not be doing its job properly and in 20 minutes or so, with the AC going and the car making maximum demand for battery energy, the battery may be losing its full charge and the alternator may not be doing its job...just a thought..but it makes sense
>>it looks like it stops charging and the ammeter needle is at 0 or slighlty below that. <<
It's possible that the Ammeter would go to zero after a period of running but something about the way you describe this whole problem makes me suspect that at least a check of the charging system is in order here. The relay story never made any sense...it's sounds possible that the Diode Trios could be overheating causing the charging rate to drop to zero after extended use...bad alternators were not that uncommon on Boxers with the daul setup. It would be the most helpful if you could test each Alt individually at the + post itself and after they are heated up and with all the accesories on. You should be able to test the Alt's at the starter + junction. First with both connected at the starter +, then at each Alt. on their individual + post. I use a very old but reliable Snap-On clip on tester with 4 simple led's....there are many simular LED Testers on the market that work fine. Start with no accesories on, and gradually turn on all accessories and raise rpms...as the Alt's begin to load if they have problems the tester should pick it up.
Coach - I do not believe it is your charging system. Seems to be working fine. The battery charge depleted during startup is slowly replenished while driving, and after a few moments, the ampere meter should read essentially zero. If you were not charging, the ampere meter would be in the negative side. Between the fuel pumps, fans, ignition, etc., you would draw at least 10 amps to the negative if the alternators were not doing their job. No, the two alternators are working fine.
I have become a believer in reworking the fuel pump fuse connections. If you open the glove box, remove the fuse cover, and put your fingers around the red wire going to the center fuse block, it will likely be very hot. If it is, then you have a project. If there is significant I-squared-R loss (heat), then the voltage supplying the pumps is diminshed, and you may be experiencing fuel starvation. Let me know if the red wire is hot, and if so, I can give you some hints on how to fix it.
I have not had the chance to do that yet...James, thanks for the advice. I will do that. The problem could be some air leak somewhere that is providing the engine with the air it needs but is not metering the right amount of fuel in there...possible JRV?
Well...Lets see if I can remember.
The car came in for a clutch. Got the clutch and installed it. Everything was fine. After the raod test I put the car up on the hoist and did my final inspection. i lowered the hoist kicked the legs out jumped in and turned the key. Crank, crank, crank, nothing. Well turns out I did have any spark. Humm wierd. So I checked everything from the distributor pick-up to every wire in between the DIGIPLEX and the fuse box and the pick up and the coil..you name it I checked it. Still nothing. Then I thought well I guess the box went. I buzzed JRV through this site and he confirmed that I was checking everything correctly.
JRV kindly gave me the number for permatune. I called and subsiquently sent the DIGIPLEX to be rebuilt by them. Got it back (about a month later) installed it in car VARROOOM she starts!! Great I though one more headach gone. Not so fast. I delivered the car back to the dealer. A week later I get phone call "tom the BB doesn't start". [email protected]#K I said. Down to the dealer i go a 9pm. I get there..sure enough no spark. I have it towed back to the shop. I go through eveything again. This time I remove the distributor the digiplex and coil. I make my own test rig on the bench using a car battery. I hook up all the wiring and I spin the distributor by hand...no spark. I throw my tools on the bench and go home for the night. I return in the mroning and try it agian...i get spark. WTF? I leave it for about an hour and come back to it..still have spark. Huh..I said "maybe I left somthing loose last night and thats why it didn't work. Well Needless to say I installed the entire thing back in the car. I go to crank it...nothing. WTF? rip it all out agian cause this time I KNOW I don't have spark..so it's either the unit (again) or bad wiring. I bench check it again..no spark. So I now know the wiring in the car is good. Besides I checked it a million times before that anyway.
I get back on this site and i explain my problem to JRV..he agrees its a bad box. I call permatune. They said to try a couple of things and if they don't work to send it back for another unit. Another month goes by and I get a new box. I install it...Varrom! she fires up (like last time). I kept that car for anothe 2 weeks befor I returned it to the dealership. I put more miles on the car then the previous owner did!! She has not so much as hiccupped once since.
Tom: On the wiring diagram, there are two leads coming from the distributor.......I assume R1 and R2 (only R1 is labeled........coming off the pick-up sensor). R1 goes to terminal #1 of the ECU, while R2 goes to ground and terminal #2 of the ECU.
On my car, I find that R1 and R2 are connected near the distributor!!!!!!!!!!!!! Any reason for this?
I am getting an eratic spark in my BBi, and can't figure out where the problem is.