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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
JR, I know you and I have disc

JR, I know you and I have discussed this between us, but it seems many folks new to the market have asked me the old glass vs. steel question.

There are currently two glass cars on ebay as well as some nice steel '78, '79 carb cars.

Here's the question, is glass worth it, given that these early cars run the strongest of the 308s? What's the real $$ on these?

Also, going to the '77, '78, '79 Steel cars, what is the cutoff for the "good" ones. By '79 or laterI know these cars lost a lot of horsepower due to emissions controls.

Thanks in advance, just wanted to get a good dialogue started, it seems interest in these classic, simpler cars is on the rise!
 
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Hi Alan,

77 steel B's a


Hi Alan,

77 steel B's are my personal car of choiceof the 306 series..the best of all the refinements without cats.

The only reason to buy a glass car imo, would be if it has a Dry Sump engine. Then you have a true "special" car.

I like 78-79's also, but ....the loss of HP and additional heat generated by the cats takes it's toll on longivity. And if one wants an S, why not just buy an 82 or 4V ? Same car esentially with a little less tuning issues involved to keep them in optimum tune.

Of course the base issue comes back to price vs condition and availibility of choices.

I guess most would want to answer the future desirability (investment) issue. That's a hard question to answer as we move forward. Will gas be going to $3-$4 per gallon? Will the so called experts start hypeing certian cars & attributes? Will ownership of classics be considered respectable or will the newer geneerations fawn after gizmoo's & electronic gadgetry or will old "repairable" technology be looked upon with favor?

Ownership of old cars (especialy old Italian cars)requires effort & expense to keep them going and new appearing....over the years the guys that have been the happiest have been just average people that buy & fix what makes them comfortable..with price & effort required. These types seem to derive the most long term pleasure out of ownership...therefore when (or if) they ever add up the reciepts it's not about the money near as much as it was about the experience. In the big picture only a finite number of people ever get the chance to own a Ferrari, much less be one's caretaker for future generations.

Just my rambling thoughts...

Regards, JRV
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
So my blind puchase of a '

So my blind puchase of a '77 to get the carbs was aa good bingo, eh? That's true, mine was the last year DOT Non Catalyst!

The glass buyers should look for a dry sump!

Yes, I was really speaking more regards to performance. Investment discussions open a whole new can of worms.

"It's not an investment if you drive it.
You can't total out a 401K!"

I'll bring you a scorched Enzo part! Thanks again.

Let's hear from some happy 308 owners!
I know I'm one, but as you say, I don't really go for 100 points at the Concours, I'm over at the track!
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Hi,

I agree with JRV - I se


Hi,

I agree with JRV - I searched forever for a unmolested, great running '77 GTB. It is much harder to find a good early carbed car than it is to find a good QV or 328.

What I wanted was a back-to-basics sports car with gives the most driver interaction. Higher control efforts, non-linearities of carb operation, etc. are all pluses to me when it comes to having a weekend sports car.

For everyday transportation, technological improvements are beneficial - lower emissions, safety, fuel economy, light control efforts (i.e. power steering), etc. As an engineer, this is where I welcome new technology.

I do not have the same prerequistes for a part-time sports car. A new sports car, is dulled by all the tech stuff. Driver interaction is lost. The personality of the car is hidden or not as passionate. If you do not take a newer car to the track, you will never hit its limit on the road (unless you want to go to jail). Give me a carbed Italian car or GT350 (my other fav) as a sports car. Or a P51 Mustang over any modern fighter - that's what gets me excited! I'll take vintage racing over F1 any day. F1 cars are amazing technologically but do nothing for me as far as aesthetics and the sport of racing in general - they are merely appliances for speed and because they are so amazing, they bore me!.....now I am really rambling myself..hey, I am trying to relieve some tension during lunch.....
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
>>Let's hear from

>>Let's hear from some happy 308 owners! <<

There are ALOT of happy 308 owners out there. Look at DJ's 308...WOW, the effort he has put in is phenominal !!!


and just look at the many guys posting in Tech, making their cars better & better by the day and learning a tremendous amount ta boot. Thanks to this forum I'm seeing LOTS of guys having fun in the face of the pain of repairs...sure it's frustrating some times...but look at how happy many are with the accomplisment of taking on the challenge and coming out on top!

Regards, JRV
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
.....oh yeah, and automatic ta

.....oh yeah, and automatic tansmissions in race cars (to shave 100ths of a sec off lap times) makes me sick!!
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I have learned a great deal fr

I have learned a great deal from this site from JRV and others - the learning itself is all the reason to buy an older car and makes the ownership experience all the more worthwhile and rewarding.

When I first got my car I was "afraid" to loosen the airbox screws! Now, I have so many things taken apart, i had to write them down!
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
>>the learning itself

>>the learning itself is all the reason to buy an older car and makes the ownership experience all the more worthwhile and rewarding.<<

that's alot of what I'm seeing...guys "interacting" with the cars and having fun doing it. Old cars require lots of "participation" from regularly checking the oil to whipping out a few tools to fix something...guys that don't want to check oil & interact won't like older cars of any type...guys that like playing with their toys in more than just driving are old car types...old car guys have to be open minded and versitle...taking life & challenges as they come and able to work thru problems, sometimes on the fly...no safety nets....the adventure is the lure to me, overcoming the challenges when need be and enjoying the success's of effort the rest of the time.
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I'm a happy owner of a 79

I'm a happy owner of a 79 308gts. I bought the car and it is in great shape. It had limited service records, but I could tell the car was really kept up, and the ppi proved it. So what I got was a great car for a great price since I used the lack of maint. records as a way to get the price down. Even the windows and wipers work at a modern car era speed, and the dash lights are bright and the car leaks NO oil. I've looked at a total of 4 308's (one of which was a QV, which was junk) before I bought this car, and this car was the nicest one. The cat thing is really no big deal with the 79 and 78 model years since the car is over 15 years old and depending on where you live you can get a classic plate, and the car is now exempt of emmisions (which means remove all of that crap). The one thing I love about the car is the seating position. The way I'm built, the car feels like it was built around me. It's a perfect fit. Also, the car handles like it on rails. No body roll at all. The off the line speed isn't that great, but I believe that's becuase of the low first gear. I honestly think these cars are awesome. You get modern day handling with classic sound, styling, and if you do the majority of the maintenance yourself, the maint. costs can be lower than a harley.
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I am having a blast!!! I am al

I am having a blast!!! I am almost to the point of breaking stuff so I have an excuse to fix it.
I have done quite a bit of work so far. New axle boots, new brake lines, & new seat leather just to name a few. Shopping list includes new belts and hoses, fuel lines, blah blah blah. I am looking forward to doing the 60k service this year. I know that sounds odd to hear an owner looking forward to a major service, but I enjoy learning how this car works. I have almost as much fun in the garage as I do outside on the pavement. And, every time I take her for a spin, the sound of that engine is worth the many hours of tinkering.



It truely is a labor of love.


Just my .02



JL
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Alan,

Two and a half years


Alan,

Two and a half years ago, when I was looking for my 308, I was originally interested in a GTS QV and test drove a few. One of those dealerships also had a 1978 carburetted GTS for sale and so I asked that we take that one out too. I liked what I drove as it had a recent major service. Unfortunately, the body was in poor shape. But I decided, that day, to consider the early carburetted 308s as well. My last visit to an independent dealership on Long Island resulted in my road-testing a nice 1985 GTS QV. I told the dealership owner that it was a fine car, but somehow I preferred a carburetted car. Well, he had coincidentally been considering selling his personal 1976 308 GTB Fiberglass as he was considering buying a Dino 246 GT. I test drove the car that day and wound up buying it.

It's a very original North American version (with the wet sump, JRV) that was regularly serviced at Algar all its life. The original thermal reactor muffler was removed (it's in my garage) in the early 1980s and replaced with an ANSA exhaust. The body is pretty straight and has held up well over the years. I think that has pretty much been the case with these fiberglass bodies.

I'm very pleased with my car. At the time of purchase, the premium over a steel body GTB with similar history was about $3,000. I felt comfortable with that.

Barry
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Barry,

great story!

Not


Barry,

great story!

Not a thing wrong with wet sumps and a $3K difference is nothing if one gets what they want.

I didn't come right out and say it, but many brokers/dealers try to get $20K or better over a comporable or better steel car. Once one factors in service, updating, refurbishing one could be very deep in a car. In the 80's the cars could trade hands for large premiums, however "I don't think the average buyers ever saw a return on that premium paid" (did they?) and the prices asked have seemingly declined to their present levels.. Haven't prices asked for glass cars come down? Admittedly I'm not a broker or used car salesman so I don't keep a really sharp eye out on all Ferrari prices, only a passive interest. So please don't take my comments wrong. Generally my thoughts & ramblings are geared towards helping guys get the most bang for their buck.

Regards, JRV
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
JRV,

The dealer was very do


JRV,

The dealer was very down-to-earth and helpful in every phase of my purchase. It was his personal car for 5 years and he was very attached to it. He seemed concerned that the car be cared for as he and the previous owners had cared for it. As a result, I feel he was very realistic in his asking price.

It came with full service records from Algar. Even Lee Romani at Algar and Phil Tegtmeier, a salesperson at Algar for many years and now a chief concours judge in this area, remember my car as it was the first GTB they sold at Algar and serviced there regularly. They're happy to see the car still problem-free. I feel very fortunate in this first purchase.

I'm not sure what prices for these cars are doing. I'm not considering selling the car right now so I don't really check selling prices. I just enjoy driving it year-round and showing it occasionally. It usually gets silver awards because of the ANSA muffler and the the belts off the air pumps. At least the ANSA has held up well because of that:



Barry
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Hi Barry!

Welcome! We'v


Hi Barry!

Welcome! We've chatted before about mufflers and other details!


I saw a glass car unusual color, white/blue interior for $115K in the crazy years, haven't seen it since. Also recently have seen glass 308s as low as $20K, so I guess you get what you pay for.

Yours looks great!

Speedy"Looking for a spare one"308

I guess I'll stay with '77 Steel, then.

Dam_ rust bugs! LOL!
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
If you ever DO release it. ple

If you ever DO release it. please let me know, Dr. Barry.

You can reach me thru JRV, anytime!
Of course, he'll want commission! LOL!

It's obviously a special car, having been cared for by experts. I can only say that about mine for the last six years.
 
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Hi Alan,

Yes, I remember ou


Hi Alan,

Yes, I remember our e-mails last year regarding our mufflers and exhaust valances. Yours was a transitional year that had a screen attached to a valance like mine before Ferrari went to the large slotted exhaust cover. My 1976 did not have that screen. I was wondering if you might post a picture of your rear valance treatment.

Thank you for your kind comments. Right now, my car is at Classic Coach for a major service. I do agree with JRV's sentiments regarding the Euro set-up with dry sump and single distributor and I would have preferred the Euro fiberglass, but this is what came up purely by coincidence. I'll enjoy this one for a while longer. It's fun to drive and its history of being among the first 4 North American version GTBs imported by Chinetti adds to #19399's distinction.

Rust is for the most part a non-issue. The rocker panels, however, are steel and have to be looked after.

Regards, again,
Barry
 
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Well, it's being fabricate

Well, it's being fabricated now!

We had a wreck come in with one to use as a template. The hardest part has been availablity of the patterned steel.

Will post photos ASAP. I do have the photos of the one off the car we are using as pattern.
 
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Thanks Alan. Meanwhile, I fou

Thanks Alan. Meanwhile, I found a picture of what the screen looks like. Something like this?



Barry
 
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Exactly!!

I have noticed th


Exactly!!

I have noticed that my Ansa exhaust tips are spaced differently from the original, by a few inches! THAT explains where mine went!

I can see 'em scratching their heads, and throwing it away, once the Ansa was on.

We're making two, once the material arrives!
We'll save the patterns, as well.
 
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Alan,

The cut-outs on your


Alan,

The cut-outs on your original screen (wherever that may be) fit the OEM muffler for your car which I think was the (pre-cat) thermal reactor muffler. Mine resides in my garage:



I'll have to measure the spacing between the tailpipes on both my ANSA and OEM muffler (out of curiosity).

Barry
 
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