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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Does one remove the front engi

Does one remove the front engine cover in order to get at the bearings, or just the water pump cover?

I just ordered two water pump bearings, and the guy at Rutlands told me that most dealers just replace the outward bearing in a major. It would appear that the inner bearing is harder to get at.....or, the outer one can be replaced by removing just the oil pump cover, whereas the inner one has to have the front engine cover removed? This sounded strange to me, because, if you don't replace BOTH (as a preventative method), then why replace just the easier ONE!!!!!....makes no sense. I feel, that if you don't replace both, then leave both alone.
 
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
I asked several experienced pe

I asked several experienced people, and they said if there are no problems or leaks at 30k miles that it might be better to leave it alone. My TR's water pump looked good appearance-wise. So I'm leaving it the way it is. Perhaps in 5 years I can tackle it then.
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Where your waterpump bearings

Where your waterpump bearings definitely replaced 30K miles ago, to think that you only have 30k miles on them now? I am skeptical as to what was said to be done, and what was actually done, even by a Ferrari dealer! While I thought that my tensioner bearings where still good, a close look revealed rust and pitting on the edges of the outer bearing.....the last major was 5 years ago, by the dealer.....By their looks, I wouldn't be surprised if they are the original ones. I'm sure the previous owner has invoices charging him for new ones. The above statement by Rutlands gives me doubt.

While the pump may look good, this is no indication of the bearing being good or bad. Did you spin the bearings by hand to make sure they didn't bind? While doing the Boxer clutch, I saw that the pilot bearing was not frozen, however, when I turned it by hand, I was able to feel resistance.....while it still functioned well, it WAS going......so I replaced it.

Since this is my first service, I feel, like JRV, and replace everything......well, almost everything. Then I will know exactly where I am at. At the next service, if a seal doesn't leak, or a bearing spins free, then I will consider leaving them alone for another 30K miles.
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
One of the nice things about d

One of the nice things about doing your own major, engine-out service it that it gives you a baseline to start from...You know, 'cause you did it, what was done, without any doubts.

And speaking from experience, a few "extra" dollars now and time spent, is far better than trying to get to that (water pump), or whatever, after the engine is back in the car.

IMO, the water pump is a "must do", while the engine is out, unless you're 100% sure as to it's condition. Even though I had very few miles on my rebuilt pump, prior to the recent engine overhaul...I went though it again, only to find a hairline crack in the housing. Likely, this explaned the small dribble of antifreeze on the ground.

In addition, if the water pump impeller was not previously tightened enough, the impeller will wobble slightly on the pump shaft, damaging the back of the impeller. Although you might look at the damage and say...no big deal, and reassemble it, as this is not a sealing area...It is a big deal, as I found out. Any wear, or indentation on the backside of the impeller adversely affects the impeller to front pump housing clearance. This "extra" clearance reduces the efficiency of the water pump, resulting in higher engine temperatures. I had a custom spacer made...longer than the OE Ferrari one to reduce the pump front housing/impeller clearance...resulting in greater pumping efficiency.


Regards,
David
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Is there some kind of measurem

Is there some kind of measurement that can be done to determine bearing condition? Maybe end play or run out? The impeller spins nicely on my car, but your raising doubts in my mind now. Any rule of thumb? Otherwise it looks like I'll be following Henry's example and rebuilding mine too.
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Jeff: Can I assume you have t

Jeff: Can I assume you have the front engine cover off. In order to spin the impeller, by hand, it appears that one would have to remove the pump chain.....is this what you did?
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Jeff,

Sorry, but no rule of


Jeff,

Sorry, but no rule of thumb here. Although the pump is simple to go through, there's more to be concerned about then just the bearings. There's the carbon/carbon impeller housing seal, as well as an oil seal deep in the housing. Personally, I'm more concerned about the seals (condition) then the bearings.

I guess if it's not leaking out of the weep hole, than the pump is probably OK. I just don't like to gamble with these cars, as everything is such a PITA when the engine is back in...

Regards,
David
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Guys,

By front cover I hope


Guys,

By front cover I hope you don't mean engine cover but pump cover...right?

JRV
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
JRV: Yes, I meant the engine

JRV: Yes, I meant the engine cover.....that cover that the pump cover screws into. How else would one remove the chain drive and get access to the internals of the pump?

Like you said.....change everything!!!!!!!!
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
The pump comes apart from the

The pump comes apart from the engine cover on all 12's..I just pull out the pump and rebuild, reinstall, done.

The front engine covers never come off short of an engine rebuild.

Best, JRV
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thanks JRV: I didn't real

Thanks JRV: I didn't realize that the pump can be totally removed without removing the engine cover. When you remove it this way (removing the pump cover only), can you change both of the bearings?
 
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
H,

yes you can still pull


H,

yes you can still pull the inner bearing if you choose to, but since they get oiled from the engine they are usually ok.


I didn't want to interfere with the fun you guys are having until I noticed this front cover situation...you really don't want to make this far harder than it needs to be...{
}
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Ferrari offers an update kit f

Ferrari offers an update kit for the pumps aswell. I'd give your local dealer a call and see what the price and avalability is. I was quoted $900 CND for it. I also read that the pumps in TR's rarely ever go and I have yet to see one leak myself. One x-Ferrari tech told me that it's mostly a scare put to the customer after the engine is out of the car. You know..if the pump leaks and gets coolant on the belts were not responsable....type thing. Now 308 pumps are another story!!
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Hey Tom,

what happened on t


Hey Tom,

what happened on the Boxer with no spark?

I don't really consider a WP rebuild a scare tactic. A good tech that does good work would really look like a fool if a major was done and a few thousand miles later the pump started leaking, and if he had to pull the motor again for free because of the oversight...ouch!!!

Quality work isn't neccesarily just fixing what is broken, a certian portion of quality is anticipating what might go wrong before another 30K miles rolls along and doing ones best to mitigate/avoid those potential problems.

Yes sometimes customers balk at the cost of the best quality work but if they are given inteligent explanations as to why heading off problems in advance is really in their own best interest, the smart ones will go with the highest quality programs ime.

Regards, JRV
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I agree totaly JRV!! I was jus

I agree totaly JRV!! I was just pointing out what I was told thats all. But like you said it's better to do it then not.

I finally got the ignition box back from prematune on Friday!! The customer is not to happy about the wait time but what can you do!!. I have not installed it as of yet (I'm so backed up right now it's unreal). I'm going to try and get the car on the hosit tomorrow if I get the inspection on the TR done(9000 mile car!!) But thanks for asking. I thought you would have forgotten about it!! Good memory.
 
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